Welcome to episode 4 of the Grappling Arts Podcast! Our guests this week are Debbie Keitel and Resurgence regular Chakara! Themes include heels and faces, selling, and we discuss the importance of character. Chakara was a little late, so we start with Debbie and then Chakara jumps onto the call about halfway through. As is increasingly the case on the Grappling Arts, we press record as soon as the call starts as we often find the little pre-show chats really interesting! This is the case again with this episode. Hope you enjoy the show. If you do, please subscribe, leave a review, give us a shout out on social media and all of that stuff! Enjoy.